On Jul 6, 10:22 am, Les Cargill <lcarg...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> For example, I don't understand the game cricket. And I will
> say "I don't understand cricket" if forced to comment on it. And
> that is as far as it goes. If you'd said "I don't get it", I'd a'
> chuckled - been there, done that. That's a perfectly reasonable
> response.
Oh? If I asked you to come play cricket with me this sunday, I take it
you would likely decline. When pressed, I don't think the reason would
be that you didn't want to play because you didn't understand it. Why
aren't you on a cricket team? Why does your lifestyle not revolve
around cricket? The truth is not because you've never tried it or you
don't understand it. You don't play cricket regularly because you are
not attracted to it. You simply don't like it.
Let's use RichL's post as an example:
On Jul 6, 10:21 am, "RichL" <rpleav...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Renli <oliver.rich...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So how does he know? Well, because it's easy to tell what kind of
> > person "likes" frank zappa, thats why. If you can see it. It's
> > difficult to see such a thing from the "inside", if you catch my
> > drift. But it's obvious to "outsiders".
>
> Right. Because you have the truth and the rest of us are too blind to
> see it.
It's ironic because the sarcasm is true.
See? look at what you said in response, you picked up on something
totally different:
> > So how does he know? Well, because it's easy to tell what kind of
> > person "likes" frank zappa, thats why. If you can see it. It's
> > difficult to see such a thing from the "inside", if you catch my
> > drift. But it's obvious to "outsiders".
>
> That's actually a valid criticism.
It's unfortunate RichL didn't see it that way, but that's what I'm
talking about. RichL's response, designed to hurt, is representative
of the sort of person who claims to like and/or understand frank
zappa's music. They are much more likely to ridicule me, and treat me
as an outsider, to label me ignorant because I hold a different
opinion - while at the same time telling me that holding a different
opinion is what makes the world go round.
In short, there is something deeply not right with these people
cognitively - they aren't really thinking things through - they're
making connections but the link is tenuous.. there's no confirmation.
So to them, the argument is very subjective, and they use this as a
line of defense. "It's subjective." But really, it isn't.
The funny thing is, they don't want to admit that what I say is based
on a very deep understanding of Frank Zappa's music, as I've said I've
listened to a lot of his stuff repetitively, listened to a lot of his
interviews, etc - and they seem not to really understand that a lot of
what I say was first said by Zappa himself. For example in the
crossfire interview (ex. http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc)
Now, what's frank saying in this interview? It's exactly what I said,
that the words of the music aren't subjective, they are absolute. And
absolutely, there isn't anything wrong with the words themselves -
only subjectively. So applied to this discussion, in an absolute
sense, when I say zappa's music is designed to suck, or to annoy
people, it is very true.. and that if someone subjectively likes his
music, well that says a lot about that person. Not about me, who sees
the music in an absolute sense.
> But it's inherent to the structure
> of Zappa's work - which consists of a system of interlocking inside
> jokes. It's just part of the deal. It makes the work less
> accessible, but that wasn't a real high priority.
As zappa said you're free to not buy the records.
> >> What I find interesting is that somehow the quality of art is being found to
> >> be nothing more than opinion. It's a view very reflective of modern times,
> >> but IMO it's just another part of the dumbing down of society.
>
> > Thats a very dangerous and subjective conclusion you've reached.
>
> It's also probably true. What it refers to is dangerous; stating it
> isn't.
It's dangerous because it's reflective of modern times - but we didn't
discuss if it was an improvement over the previous view. I don't think
it is. Listen to that crossfire intervew then answer one.. simple..
question...
Do we need people like RichL or whomever telling me I suck, or am
ignorant, because I don't like the same music they do?
I mean Wow. It's just so.. ironic....
-
